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[QUOTE=johno]
Another observation. I spent way too much time talking to builders who disguised themselves as customers. [/QUOTE]

^Ditto^ I really enjoyed talking to other exhibitors or folks who identified themselves as builders from the git-go but there were some there that really burned your time until you realized what was going on. I too, was more leery on Saturday and Sunday and caught on a LOT sooner.

I wish there was a way to screen these folks in advance with colored badges or neon lights... Maybe we should print up some ASIA cards to hand out ;)

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Just making a joke guys. Everyone has there own tastes, that is why we can all do this to some degree or another.

I have never understood the higher priced thing in this industry, I understand subjectivity to ones own appeal and taste, just why the large range in the values placed on one builders guitar versus another, say an Olson versus a Hoffman? (use them because they seem to be good friends)

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[QUOTE=Tim McKnight] [QUOTE=johno]
Another observation. I spent way too much time talking to builders who disguised themselves as customers. [/QUOTE]

^Ditto^ I really enjoyed talking to other exhibitors or folks who identified themselves as builders from the git-go but there were some there that really burned your time until you realized what was going on. I too, was more leery on Saturday and Sunday and caught on a LOT sooner.

I wish there was a way to screen these folks in advance with colored badges or neon lights... Maybe we should print up some ASIA cards to hand out ;)[/QUOTE]

I would say ditto too, but I think saying like ditto cubed would be more appropriate.

Anyway I got that a lot too. Or guys masquerading as poential clients really trying to sell you stuff that they wisk out of the inside coat pocket like a $10 rolex in NYC (my dumb metaphor for the day).

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

I think all your guitars are great, and it was nice to talk to all you guys and many other builders at the show.

Also, how is Jeff's headstock a weird shape?



Addam Stark38694.1158217593

I don't think it is wierd...I think it looks simple and clean.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Technically that headstock is a great design, as for me it has nice string seperation and straight string paths.

More power to the Man if he can command those sort of prices, I'm sure as somone said, he has had to work long and hard to get to his level, lets hope we can get to that level too

Even the "superstars" aren't all that original. You can get headstock #1 for $300 or headstock #2 for $20k.
Sidenote: because many of you don't know my sense of humor, that is just a little teasing joke and not a mean spirited jab.

Pssst - Jeff is a registered member of the OLF. Sure would love to hear is thoughts on marketing and pricing, because he evidently has mastered it. Something I think we should all aspire too. That is if you plan to ever attempt a living at guitar making.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I am very interested in the psychology of these stratospheric prices.

What I really would like to know is if it happened by accident, or Jeff is a marketing genius.

But I can see the logic...

Jeff thinks: "Man... my backlog is out of control.... Ok. Next year I am going to triple prices to slow this down and let me get caught up."

Buying Public Thinks: "Oh ****! If I ever want a Traugott I better get in line now.... I will never be able to afford one otherwise.... PLUS!!! look at how good of an investment it is!!"

and after a couple rounds of price increases to try to bring the backlog under control you have a Tulip Bulb Craze on your hands...

What I wonder is... if these situations are PURELY accidents... or if they can be engineered. I find these group market behavior things to be extremely interesting.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock,
I imagine then you've read "Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds"?

Yes, several times...   the tulip bulb reference gave that away I am sure.   

It is a facinating book...

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Jeff certainly has earned his pricing, I've talked with him a couple of times (I'm sure he wouldn't know me from adam regardless). He's always been very nice and helpful with information, I think his guitars have a great sense of proportion and they are CLEAN...

It takes lot's of building to get that good, one day I'll be there.....

My biggest laugh was watching him send people to look and tinker with my fanned fret, that made me feel good. I put ALOT of work into that guitar and was very happy with the reception it got and the owner is even happier so it was a good deal.

One thing that no one has mentioned was that I think Bruce Sexauer had a pure stroke of genius having a little recording/listening setup at his table. I'm stealing that idea for the next show, all my guitars will have pickups installed and you'll be able to plug them in and play right there, regardless of the ambient noise...

Cheers

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

It's interesting to read about everyones experiences. Crowding seems to be a common issue on everything I've read about the festival, mostly in the main hall. I personally think I had a great spot in the atrium. A nice spot people could sit and play, or the door outside was right there. I sold a guitar on Sunday which was great, and I also got feedback that has been very helpful in trying to figure out where I stand in the market. One thing I found surprising was that by the end of Sunday, I had heard the tone of my guitars described in every possible way. I heard everything from "tight", "open", "no bottom", "great bottom end", "loud", "quiet" and on and on. All in relation to the same guitar. By the end I chose to keep my descriptions of what I thought my guitars sounded like vague and let people decide for themselves.

It was great to see what other people were doing and to meet some of you. (thanks for the cooler Tim, our fridge broke before Thanksgiving and it came in handy.)

Something I'd like to say about Jeff is that he's a great guy who gave me a lot of help before the show. His guitars are impeccable. As for his prices, I would if I could. Pricing my own guitars was difficult for me, putting value on art is pretty much driven by the market, so if you can sell something for a certain price than that's what it's worth. And by the way, the sound set-up the Bruce Sexhauer had was brought by Roy McAlister's friend Rick Ruskin, from what I understand there was no room in his aisle to set it up so they worked with Bruce to get it up and running. I believe it had some kind of noise cancelling circuitry in it so background noise was filtered out. And there was a bit of background noise at the show...

Paul,

So I assume they had electricity on site- extra expense?
The headphone amp/mixer/recorder is a great idea, can you describe it more? What a marketing tool, to send home a cd recording of a potential customer. I intend to get a sampler cd to my potential customers. It's just obvious that it's a cheap way to get sound into potential customers ears.

So tell us more Paul!

I had a very good experience at Healdsburg, sold 2 instruments and met some nice people. I didn't get a chance to get around and meet many other though, which I kinda regret.
I agree that the show was crowded and noisy but seemed to work for a lot of people. I thought LMI did a pretty good job really. It's got to be like hearding cats for three days!
The comments on table size are pretty much right on. a full size table would be nice. I was fortunate to have shared a table with some one I knew and he only brought one guitar to my five. Thanks Joe if you happen to read this!

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Pricing on guitars pretty much follows what you didn't pay attention to in
Econ 101 . The thing that makes sense of it is that, as with other markets
in art objects, the customers are buying two things: an object and a name.
At the low end the name adds nothing to the price. At the high end, the
name is most of it.Howard Klepper38694.9846412037

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I think Howard pretty much nailed it.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Sort of... certainly that is true for most things, and I am not saying that is "wrong"... brand is an important driver in perceived quality/value.

But... sometimes this hyper-pricing induces a market vacuum that propels a brand upward. There have been lots of well documented cases where taking a "good" (or even a GREAT) product and raising prices by 3x or more actually drives sales up. Jeff seems to have clearly moved into this current (and I say good for him!!!!)

The thing I find facinating (and would like to learn more about) is: Are there brand (or market) conditions that can be identified that can allow you to predict this effect... and possibly even influence it?

I am not thinking about this to apply to my guitars (hardly...) ... but it is just more of a general curiousity.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Sorry...I don't do impressions.

Thanks! I'll be here all week...try the veal.

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
I am not thinking about this to apply to my guitars (hardly...) ... but it is just more of a general curiousity.
[/QUOTE]

Why not? Make a good business plan, build a bunch-o-guitars,work your way up to top notch, and do a little marketing research experiment. Who knows maybe you can even quit your day job . Your proably the right dude to do such an experiment. Just don't forget to share your findings with us along the way.

I remember Harry Fleishman telling us a story about a new builder trying to sell a guitar at Healdsburg (may have been the actual guitar he built in Harry's class, but I don't remember that part for sure). He had it priced at $2500 with not much interest shown. The last day, (I believe on the advice of another builder) he raised it to $3500 and it sold pretty quickly.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

I decided to simplify with my Econ 101 reference, but Brock caught it. The
phenomenon is real. When it occurs, in economic terms, there is an area
where the demand curve reverses it's slope. At some point it will reverse
again to the normal direction. Econ 101 doesn't discuss this; it assumes
that the goods are manufactured items ("widgets") rather than art.

I think that this does not happen much down in the $2500-3500 range,
where demand is largely price driven. As you go higher, the drivers for
demand are divorced from price.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Here in a fact that many of you may like to have. Many of the guitar that Jeff has on order are from people that have one of his guitars and love it so much that they want another one. Happy buyers are always the best marketing tool!

These issues are so distant from my world in every possible way. Yet, I am fascinated by the fact that it is possible to get that kind of money for a new, modern hand made guitar by a living luthier.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

yes, me too. It is facinating. The thing I am not sure of... is if you can put the pieces in place to ** make ** it happen, or the market behaves irrationally and self generates these occurances randomly.

Mind you... none of this is to take away from Jeff's work. I love everything I have ever seen about his guitars -- IMO he has a fantastic eye for design, and from what I could see of his work at HGF it is really awesome....

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com